Second Person Pronouns

Jun 26, 2018 15:25
It may be very difficult for Japanese learners to treat Japanese second person pronouns.

Second person pronouns are pronouns used when writers/speakers address someone directly; the most common one in English is 'you.'

The Japanese language has 'anata' (あなた) and 'kimi' (君) as typical translations of 'you,' but you should not use them blindly.

In Japan, second person pronouns are basically used only to refer to your friends or lower ranking people.

If you want to refer to someone safely, you can choose several ways: adding 'san' (さん) to one's last name, using one's position name like 'sensei' (先生 - teacher) or 'buchō' (部長 - manager), or not using any second person terms.
二人称代名詞

日本語を学ぶ外国人にとって、二人称代名詞の扱いはとても難しいかもしれません。

二人称代名詞とは、受け手を指す代名詞のことで、英語では 'you' が一般的です。

典型的な 'you' の訳語としては「あなた」や「君」がありますが、気軽に使っていはいけません。

日本において、二人称代名詞は基本的に同格もしくは目下の相手にしか使われず、目上の相手に対しては失礼になってしまうからです。

無難で一般的な相手の呼び方としては、名字に「さん」をつける、「先生」「部長」など役職で呼ぶ、そもそも二人称を省略するなどがあります。
No. 1　lenubis's correction
  • It may be very difficult for Japanese learners to treat Japanese second person pronouns.
  • It may be very difficult for Japanese learners to handle treat Japanese second person pronouns.
  • Second person pronouns are pronouns used when writers/speakers address someone directly; the most common one in English is 'you.'
  • This sentence is perfect! No correction needed!
  • The Japanese language has 'anata' (あなた) and 'kimi' (君) as typical translations of 'you,' but you should not use them blindly.
  • This sentence is perfect! No correction needed!
  • In Japan, second person pronouns are basically used only to refer to your friends or lower ranking people.
  • This sentence is perfect! No correction needed!
  • If you want to refer to someone safely, you can choose several ways: adding 'san' (さん) to one's last name, using one's position name like 'sensei' (先生 - teacher) or 'buchō' (部長 - manager), or not using any second person terms.
  • If you want to refer to someone without offending themsafely, you can choose several ways: adding 'san' (さん) to one's last name, using one's position name like 'sensei' (先生 - teacher) or 'buchō' (部長 - manager), or simply not using any second person terms.
    　'safe' という言葉をどうしても使いたいとしたら、"The safest way to refer to someone is to ...."という文型もありますが、ここは三つの選択肢が挙げられているので不適切です。なぜならこの文型には最上級のsafestを使われて、一番無難な方法を提案する文型です。
Toru
Thank you so much for correcting my post!
私の日本語の文章を元に添削してくれてありがとうございます！
No. 2　Matt's correction
  • It may be very difficult for Japanese learners to treat Japanese second person pronouns.
  • It may be very difficult for Japanese learners to treat Japanese second person pronouns.
    　use, correctly use, manage the use of, etc.
  • Second person pronouns are pronouns used when writers/speakers address someone directly; the most common one in English is 'you.'
  • Second person pronouns are pronouns used when writers/speakers address someone directly, the most common one in English being 'you.'
    　As an alternative. I think it simplifies this sentence to not have two separate clauses.
  • The Japanese language has 'anata' (あなた) and 'kimi' (君) as typical translations of 'you,' but you should not use them blindly.
  • The Japanese language has 'anata' (あなた) and 'kimi' (君) as typical translations of 'you,' but they should not be used blindly.
    　Up to this point, your post has been in a 3rd person mode and here you switch to the use of the second person. It's not overly problematic; however, to increase the coherence and cohesiveness of your text, I might recommend to choose either a 2nd or 3rd person approach and maintain it throughout. At the start you might have said "As a learner of Japanese, you may find it very difficult..." to create an more intimate feel with your reader through the use of the 2nd person perspective. You're talking directly to me in a teacherly way.

    Or here, to keep it 3rd person impersonal and more factual, you could change the sentence as I indicate above.
  • In Japan, second person pronouns are basically used only to refer to your friends or lower ranking people.
  • In Japan, second person pronouns are basically used only to refer to one's friends or lower ranking people.
  • If you want to refer to someone safely, you can choose several ways: adding 'san' (さん) to one's last name, using one's position name like 'sensei' (先生 - teacher) or 'buchō' (部長 - manager), or not using any second person terms.
  • To refer to someone directly in a socially appropriate way, there are several options: adding 'san' (さん) to someone's last name, using his or her title, for example 'sensei' (先生 - teacher) or 'buchō' (部長 - manager), or avoiding direct reference altogether, instead letting context indicate to whom one is referring.
    　I may have inserted too much of myself into this correction. I was trying to extend the impersonal mode and found some difficulty doing so.

    A few notes:

    "safely" is certainly understandable. It has a casual sense and would work best in a paragraph addressing the reader directly. "socially appropriate" is more descriptive and exact and fits with an impersonal description.

    options/choices/possibilities feels better than "ways" for some reason.

    You introduce the 相手 as "someone" in your introductory 'if' clause. But then it changes to "one" in the 'options' list. It's not overly confusing, but by maintaining the use of "someone" it makes it clear. Using "one" to refer to a person is most typical of a 3rd person only description and therefore indicates the reader. Because you have mixed "you" and "someone" and "one," it is possible to make an argument that "one" is ambiguous in reference.

    "Title" is better than "position name"

    I think since you mention this list as being "several ways" "to refer to someone," for the last option you shouldn't just leave it at "not using any second person terms." Your reader may not know that even without using those terms, they may still be referring to their interlocutor. The context of the conversation is what allows the omission of such overt terms, correct? Saying so explicitly is an important part of your explanation, I believe.
Toru
Thank you so much for the corrections and helpful comments! :)
I understand well. I will do my best to improve the coherence of my texts.
Indeed, although I said "several ways," it was odd that one of them was "not using..."
No. 3　artboy598's correction
Thank you! If I am address multiple people, should I just say “mina-san”? What about hypothetical situations? “If the fire spreads you should grab the fire extinguishers”.
Toru
Yes, you should 'mina-san' or 'mina-sama' when you address multiple people. (If these people are your friends or lower ranking people, you can also say 'minna.') In hypothetical situations, in my opinion, it is better/natural to avoid using pronouns. “If the fire spreads you should grab the fire extinguishers” can be translated as "もし火災が発生したら、消化器を使って下さい。"
artboy598
本当にありがとうございます。分かりました！
No. 4　Kiwi's correction
can I say お前さん？
Toru
Yes, you can say お前さん.
However, note that it is used to refer to lower ranking people as with other second person pronouns.
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